dream 015 - dean hoy on handling extremes with care

Dope the Rabbit by Dean Hoy

Recently, I had acupuncture for the first time, and what started as treatment for neck pain, turned into 90 minutes with a 60 year old Indian man telling me things about myself I would never like to admit. After he asked what I enjoyed doing outside of work, and I described this blog, instantly his response was ‘that makes so much sense’. Confused, I asked what he meant, to my surprise he gently replied, ‘what you present is harder than what you really have on the inside, there is a dreamlike quality, which usually you don’t let people see.’ 

Eeyore, dressed in scrooge nightcap and gown, was my first teddy. I would nestle him in the nook of my collar bones, holding onto the nub of his leg like a pinky-promise, every night until I left home at 19. Historian Gary Cross says at the time of the first teddy bear in 1902, there was “a willingness to let children remain childlike for a longer period of time.” On a recent visit home, I discovered my withered at the seams, slender Eeyore folded knee to nose in the back of my wardrobe. His tail hanging on by a mauled piece of string which allowed it to become detached without being lost. Sad at the thought of letting him rot for the sake of ego, I attached his tail back onto it’s bobbly velcro patch, and brought him back with me. Both of us no longer lost.

That’s how Dean’s work makes me feel. His bears stir a kind of excited melancholy which I can only describe as choked up adrenaline; familiar but heart wrenching at the same time. Since coming across his work a few years ago, I only recently had the joy of meeting him in person, seeing his work as part of the Sarabande presentation at last years Minor Attractions fair during Frieze (thank you Lily).

For this interview, I spoke to Dean mid-way through his recent road trip across America. In a sun drenched kitchen somewhere in LA on a sticky summer’s day, we talked about everything from crystal balls to the power of words. Similar to what his bears ooze, he spoke with a sense of reincarnated comfort, like I’d known him for much longer than I have.

All images by Dean Hoy

alisha: Do you dream?

dean: I do. Nothing crazy, though. I feel like there was a time when I was having mugwort tea before going to bed, then I was dreaming really intensely. More recently, I’ve been having really deep sleeps, since I've been having Kourtney's Lemme Sleep gummies. [laughs] But my dreams have been a bit non-eventful, which is such a shit answer. I wish I did have crazy dreams. I'm actually super jealous of people that can, because I used to when I was younger. One I really remember was when I was obsessed with the Hunger Games, I used to participate in them in my dreams. I used to love that kind of dream, but it hasn't happened much at the minute, which sucks.

a: Do you have any reoccurring dreams?

d: I used to, when I was a kid, get really bad night terrors, and it would be like I have to pick up every grain of sand on a beach or my family would die. I was so little I’d freak out, obviously, because that's an impossible task. The idea of actually moving each grain, where do you put it? How do you pick them up? That used to send me. Those ones were common, although it wasn’t a recurring thing, but it would always be these impossible tasks, or someone dies, it was always these extremes. I haven’t had one in ages, thank God, because they were horrible.

a: Would you say you had more nightmares than dreams?

d: Yeah, definitely. When I was younger, that was huge for me. Now, they're a bit mid.

a: Have you ever tried lucid dreaming?

d: No, but I'd be really curious. Actually, if I've had a big night out, my dreams are way more anxious, and I’d have a moment where it felt like someone was sat on my chest or was at the door. But that's only after I've been on a big night out and I'm feeling a bit scary. But apart from that, no, so I would be curious. My most extreme thing I've done is the mugwort tea before bed, so not that wild. 

Actually, that reminds me of something interesting with my dreams that have always been weird, and I think is tied to my sexuality and anxiousness towards that. I've never really had sex dreams, but when I do, it always turns into some sort of alien situation where something goes really horribly wrong or gross, to me or to them, and it never finishes. It's never a good ending, which I think is linked somehow. They're nightmares, I guess.

a: Do you remember what the aliens look like?

d: It's more of a sex toy situation, an alien dick or whatever, so it kind of just morphs into that. It starts enjoyable and then it goes kind of, not that I think this is true if you're into that, but for me in the moment it feels disgusting or embarrassing. So, it's not aliens, but something alien happens.

a: Do you ever feel like you have realisations from your dreams? Like for example what you just said, being tied to your sexuality, or things that make you feel uncomfortable.

d: No, not that I can think of, not any extreme ones, but I do kind of want to. I kind of crave that. I wish I had more feelings from a dream when I wake up. One of my best mates, she has these dreams which I think sounds more terrifying like a nightmare, but it will be something super realistic that happens to a friend, or a falling out. When she wakes up and believes that's the truth, she has to take an hour or so to re-acclimatise to what's actually real. That freaks me out.

a: I have dreams like that as well. I have to wake up and check if it happened, or if everyone is okay.

d: That sounds terrifying. Fucks with your reality so much.

a: Yeah, I think that's that's also why I find dreams so interesting, because it does blur with what you live day to day. I’ve had some dreams where then in the future, I've actually experienced it, which sounds like I'm making it up, but it’s such a weird feeling.

d: I kind of do crave that experience, and this is such a funny reference, but you know Eckhart Tolle? I remember reading his Power Of Now, and in it I think he was 29 and he was confused about life, feeling really low, and just collapsed on the floor. Then when he woke up, he had this new sense of clarity, and that's kind of when his journey began, or whatever. But, I feel like when I've been low, I really crave a life altering dream.

a: You need someone to put a movie cut in your life, and then it's like a new scene starting.

d: Exactly, I just like extreme things generally. So, I feel like it's kind of dead that I don't get these extreme experiences overnight, because I'd love to have more.

a: What's an extreme that you're into at the minute?

d: We've been on this road trip, which was extremely sad, but extremely nice. I love a memorial, and knew about this murder that happened in Wyoming to this guy called Matt Shepherd, and it changed a lot of LGBTQIA+ laws and legalisation, because it was a savage attack in the 90s. We went to the town, we were kind of passing through Wyoming anyway, but I kind of knew there was this memorial bench. I haven't really said this out loud yet, but I had a bear that I was bringing with me, and I've left it there as memorial. I guess that's quite extreme in terms of what happened is so horrible, but the bench was just really sweet. His family has set up this charity that I want to donate to.

a: That's beautiful. What was the bear like?

d: I'll send you a photo. It's this little, blue one. This one’s called Laramie, but it’s based off what I call my classic rabbit, Dope. I wanted to try making a really small bear, I used to just hang it in the studio, on this bit of string. I wanted to take one that was almost pocket size away, and I knew I wanted to leave it somewhere, but didn't know where, and that just wound up making sense, but it's a baby pink and pastel blue kind of colour. It just kind of felt like the right thing to do in the moment.

a: Maybe a dumb question, but how did you know?

d: I think I kind of already knew what to do, but I didn't know if I would actually do it. I had the idea to leave something, but I didn't know until the moment if it would feel really wrong and a bit performative and weird, or if it would feel genuine and real. I guess in the moment it was about making that decision. I guess it was just whatever felt right in my gut. Because I brought it and I was like, I don't know if I'm actually gonna do this, maybe we'll just go look and pay respect, but in the moment it felt like the right energy.

a: I recently saw the animal that you made with the ashes of someone inside, which was beautiful. Have you done something like that before?

d: That was the first time, but it's actually my boyfriend's mum's best friend, her husband passed away. She had loads of his shirts. There's been some where I've created them in memory, but not using actual materials and ashes, but that felt like something I want to do more, it felt really real, and the response was really nice, and it means a lot to them, which is cool.

a: Are your animals usually a response to a memory, or are they in memory of something?

d: Definitely, I feel like they're always in response to something, actually, whether it is something like that, where someone came with a story, or whether it can just be simple as, and this sounds lame, but literally a song, or a lyric that directly hits, and then it will spark a whole idea. So that I guess is a memory in some way, but they're distant, nothing relates. Everyone thinks I must have had a really traumatic childhood, just because of the nature of the subject matter. But I didn't, so it doesn't directly relate to my memories. The only one that does is the idea of losing teddy bears or being restricted from playing with certain toys which I experienced just because of society, and feeling embarrassed. So there's that kind of memory tied through them and celebrating it now, because I felt shame when I was younger. But actually, in terms of each piece, it's more like instant memories. There's definitely a word for that, but you know what I mean, something in the moment.

a: Your work definitely makes me think about the way that it was created by an instinctual reaction, like putting the bear at the memorial or using the shirt. I wanted to see if that was a common theme, to see if each bear kind of was like a time capsule of a memory.

d: I think things do pull together in a bear, like with the ashes, I guess there's a lot of symbolism behind a fawn, and what it represents. So then bringing it to life with the shirts, and using parts of where you can still see marks and stains, I feel like things do creep together. Even with other works, everything's pulled together. I had a crystal ball, you know, I bought quite a few on this trip actually, but it fell on the floor and shattered in two perfect halves, and it created these two eyes. But there definitely is different things that have pulled together and sort of worked really naturally, and it hasn't been an effort to make, or it just has kind of formed. That's kind of a long answer, but I just wanted to create stuff that has a lot of feeling in it. That was my only real goal, and I think that's why I used bears as well, or started playing with them, because I think there's just a universal bond with that object

a: I guess with using the crystal ball you're kind of like deriving things from people's past, but also casting into the future too.

d: I also liked, because it split in two and I had forgot what actual crystal is, but the slight translucentness to it, so you almost could compare it to being a window into the bear a little bit. As opposed to every seam being covered, there was kind of these openings through the eyes, and this fawn’s all white as well, like a feather. I bought some new crystal balls on this trip, I'm not crazy spiritual with my crystals, I just think aesthetically they're gorgeous, but I think that's definitely something that feels right, and I feel like that adds a kind of… oh, I've got this quote I love, actually, sorry I’m sort of rambling now…

a: No I love it, continue.

d: I love Maya Angelou, and she means a lot to me. She said this quote, I’ll paraphrase, but like words stick to things, they stick to the carpets, the sofa, and they seep in, and then they eventually seep back into you. So whatever you say reverberates and goes back into you, and when I use objects like blankets or crystal balls, I feel like when I give, or someone purchases, a bear, it has absorbed a lot of goodness from everything it’s made of, so hopefully it can give that back out as well.

a: Is there anything you're making at the minute that is the next evolution of this?

d: I've been doing a lot of textile breakdown work, and that's really using process to age, and I haven't made a bear that’s worn down, I think that's definitely what I want to explore more. I haven't had the urge to make a bear in a while, but on this trip I've kind of been gathering words or objects or ideas. We stayed on a farm and there was a goat, which I took some pictures of, I feel like I'm kind of collaging all this shit from this trip that I've connected with, and then I'm gonna make something, but I don't know what it is yet. Sometimes I'll start with like a limb, and then I'll be like, this is looking like a deer, or this is looking like a dog, or you know, I'll just see what it does.

a: How did you start doing this?

d: My boyfriend is costume designer and studied womenswear, sometimes I’d help him sew stuff, and when I was doing photography, I'd often dye clothes, but it was a bit DIY. Then when I started the bears, I just inverted existing teddy bears, so it was more like a simple approach where it would be inverting and then stitching back up and sewing on the ears, and then over time I just started evolving it and making a pattern of my own. So I’m completely self-taught, and you can tell because the stitching is really janky, but almost deliberately.

a: I think it makes it perfect though. It reminds me of when my mum would sew a hole in my top, or sew my name into my school uniform.

d: Yeah, that's why I do the breakdown work, I was so attracted to bears because, there's that really famous artist that a lot of people always send me, but it’s something like to be loved is to be worn, or whatever, and that's what I like about it. To be loved is to be changed, or something like that. I guess it’s a lot on Instagram, I'm sure you know that. I think just like really working into the wear, is what I want to keep doing a bit more and more, and doing it a bit more harshly, whether that's with the story or with the actual process.

a: Do you have your own collection of bears? When you were a kid, did you have a lot or just one particular bear? I had Eeyore, which is dressed in a little nightcap and nightgown. Now I have a little bat, it's so crusty and disgusting, but I love it.

d: I just think beat up teddy bears look amazing. Do I have one now? I don't have one now. I sometimes sleep with one of the ones I made, but when I was a kid, I had a big golden retriever that I used to use as pillow. I remember that my brother threw in a swimming pool, and that was quite a big memory. I had a massive Minnie Mouse. I didn't have a bear I couldn’t sleep without. But I definitely have some that meant loads to me. The Golden Retriever one, that's in the loft now, but it’s cute because I used to use it as a pillow, so the centre of its body is just nothing. I remember my mum has kept all her teddies, and I used to be fascinated by them. She has an old Snoopy, and shit like that. I always love people's stories of bears.

a: Do you remember the last dream that you had?

d: It’s so lame but I actually do. I had a night out with Dualipa, and she was an absolute hoot. [laughs] That was actually the dream. And then when I woke up and she came on the radio when we were driving, and I was like I’m really liking Dualipa at the moment. Jonny, my boyfriend, asked me why and I said I think I actually just had a dream with her in. But I don’t really know why that happened, she was just in my dream and it was like a party. It was fun. That’s kind of how my dreams are, they’re never deep, at most it’s a wild night with someone.

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